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 Post Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:03 pm 
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So I just finished rereading 4U City. Wow. It's powerful every time.

We've been bringing up similarities and differences in spec and reaction threads, but I was wondering if we could put together a comprehensive list of similarities and differences between the DoR and what's going on now.

Maybe there is already such a list somewhere...but if so, it's probably not up to date.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:37 am 
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Just in time, someone in the reactions thread linked to this: http://www.sluggy.com/comics/archives/daily/20110519

Which, along with the death of Schlock's son in the DoN, are the only two definitively different things between the two dimensions we've seen with our own eyes. It's likely that there are a number of other differences, especially regarding Oasis, but none of them were clear enough that we can prove them. Although depending on who else dies this week, there's another page from 4U City where we see who was left to ostensibly rule the world. Diyu was one of them, so if Kusari kills her that's an even stronger difference.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:02 am 
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Wasn't Gennaro also in 4U City?

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:03 pm 
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Lord Golbez wrote:
Wasn't Gennaro also in 4U City?

Yes, so was McPinata (weapons dealer, rival to Crushero) both are dead in DoN.

The DoR 'Outsiders' consisted of No Fun and Crushero forces. Well most of Crushero's forces/resources have been 'disintegrated' (DFAed) and the No Fun legacy group offered an alliance with hC. They *could* still rise, but I'm not 100% sure.

Am I right in thinking Gwynn was never mentioned on Riff's 7 years there?

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:58 pm 
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yurak wrote:
Am I right in thinking Gwynn was never mentioned on Riff's 7 years there?

Well, she wasn't mentioned per se, there was just the visual of her being shoved down a judgment chute early on....

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:01 pm 
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swmartian wrote:
yurak wrote:
Am I right in thinking Gwynn was never mentioned on Riff's 7 years there?

Well, she wasn't mentioned per se, there was just the visual of her being shoved down a judgment chute early on....


You beat me to it! I had just searched it out-- but good eyes! I hadn't caught that until I was looking back at that sequence of R.E.V.I.E.W.s

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:56 pm 
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Starting from this list of characters on the Niftypedia, here is who exists in both (or has an equivalent):
Please add or correct me!

Both DoN and DoR

Resistance and normal DoR people:
Riff
Torg
Zoe
Izzy
Strom (aka Seven in DoR)
Leo
Min maybe?
Rammer

Bad Guys/Hereticorp
Schlock
Frog
Harbinger (Oasis)
Daiyu, Gennaro, McPinata executive board

Mentioned or briefly shown in DoR
Crushestro
Shankraft
Nana Avarre
Gwynn

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:03 am 
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DoR Zoe was dead, I think. And isn't DoN Gennaro dead too, thought Frog had him killed?

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 5:49 am 
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yurak wrote:
The DoR 'Outsiders' consisted of No Fun and Crushero forces. Well most of Crushero's forces/resources have been 'disintegrated' (DFAed) and the No Fun legacy group offered an alliance with hC. They *could* still rise, but I'm not 100% sure.


All of the outsiders are presumably dimensional refugees leaking in through the timeless void, since it's implied that nobody can survive outside 4U City. Basically without a Timeless Space safety net, your dimension turns into sieve made out of swiss cheese. Or something. In any case old Riff mentioned at some point that Schlock vaguely won the R&D war, so there shouldn't be competition from within the dimension.

Of course, Schlock can still "win" the R&D war here in the DoN despite it having fallen into a seemingly indefinite stalemate. So that's still on the table.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:44 am 
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Yodimus_Prime wrote:
yurak wrote:
The DoR 'Outsiders' consisted of No Fun and Crushero forces. Well most of Crushero's forces/resources have been 'disintegrated' (DFAed) and the No Fun legacy group offered an alliance with hC. They *could* still rise, but I'm not 100% sure.


All of the outsiders are presumably dimensional refugees leaking in through the timeless void, since it's implied that nobody can survive outside 4U City. Basically without a Timeless Space safety net, your dimension turns into sieve made out of swiss cheese. Or something. In any case old Riff mentioned at some point that Schlock vaguely won the R&D war, so there shouldn't be competition from within the dimension.



Right-- Dimensional refugees

No Fun and Crushestro forces had been in the DoR prior to 4U City. They were not in 4U City, but before it, not from another dimension. They were part of the equivalent R&D wars there.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:32 pm 
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THAT'S the comic I was thinking of!
Wow that was six years ago.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:01 am 
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Yodimus_Prime wrote:
THAT'S the comic I was thinking of!
Wow that was six years ago.


Since I just returned to reading Sluggy last August, and so just read 2005-2016 for the first time, it isn't so long ago for me, but every time I look at the date, I am hit by how long ago it was for the rest of you!

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:25 am 
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Seems like we have a rough estimate of characters that exist in both.

What about timelines?
This weekly sequence has DoR Riff's discussion of the 4U City timline
Please update and fix if needed!

DoR: Before 4U City, what we know:
1. Schlock betrayed Riff
2. Schlock sent Riff to another dimension via DFA
3. Zoe died
(Sometime during or before the above, he sold REAs to the military)
4. Presumably, R&D Wars are "Cold"
5. 4U City Rises
6. R&D Wars go "Hot,"
-Weaponization of DFAs, R&D Wars Ended
7. Events of 4U City with DoN Riff.

DoN timeline/similarities:
1. Schlock betrayed Riff
2. Schlock sent Riff to DoR via DFA
3. Zoe "died," medical nanites brought her body back
4. Schlock sold REAs to the military
5. R&D Wars are "Cold" or "at stalemate"

Can anyone get Torg's timeline with Minion Master/Year in the life of a villain up?

random thing revealed in Riff's R.E.V.I.E.W: there was no Doctor Who reboot in the DoN

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:10 am 
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randomlanguage wrote:
Starting from this list of characters on the Niftypedia, here is who exists in both (or has an equivalent):
Please add or correct me!

Both DoN and DoR

Resistance and normal DoR people:
Riff
Torg
Zoe
Izzy
Strom (aka Seven in DoR)
Leo
Min maybe?
Rammer

Bad Guys/Hereticorp
Schlock
Frog
Harbinger (Oasis)
Daiyu, Gennaro, McPinata executive board

Mentioned or briefly shown in DoR
Crushestro
Shankraft
Nana Avarre
Gwynn

Add Sharon Gall and I'm Pretty sure I've seen mutant Pang in the same panel as Crushero.

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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:23 am 
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We know that DoR Riff was working for Hereticorp/Schlock openly (had a suitcase), and was already married to Izzy the day of his betrayal. Big difference there - it would have had to mean he had already killed Anthony before getting fluxed to another dimension- which means no Minion Master for Torg to connect with. However the R&D Wars went down they must have been very different. We don't need to assume that was alt-Torg was actually behind them, alt-Riff mentions that he is planning them at the end of 4U Red but only because he has looked into the DoN with dimensional windows to do some recon and alt-Torg jokes that he is a "playa" in the DoN.

I think something to consider is the fact that any use of the Dimensional Flux Agitator introduces an element of randomness into each direct dimension. Alt-Riff ended up in Carib Dimension where there was no way to save Zoe whereas ours lucked out in a alternate earth that was much further along and had nanites. One of the Flux incidents that must be key in our dimension is the one that found Aylee- who if you remember became both the catalyst for the revelation of Riff's secret work for Hereticorp in Dangerous Days AND the reason why Schlock needed to take over the company after being flushed out of hiding by Aylee's giant mutation. I suspect that Riff in the DoR was able to eventually reveal his work for the company more openly to his friends and had a more amicable relationship with Dr Schlock until his betrayal.

One final difference to mention - the apparent absence of a visible K'Z'K at this point, yet the clear occurrence of multiple factors trying to destroy the Fate web. Including the evolving artificial intelligence that called itself the Lynx. Clearly the Destroyer is working subtly in many places to bring out multiple apocalypses- although the spiders in this spider scene do hint that universes can be broken some deeper away with the fall of the Pillars of Reality completely. It is possible that the destruction of the Web in DoR was more catastrophic than a K'ZK end to one Spark on one planet. Perhaps the web is a source of destruction to universes as well when Father Time mis manages it

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